Della backtracks on panels

A radio jockey got the Education Minister to agree with teachers being represented on selection panels.

On May 30, Radio 2DU compere Leo DeKroo interviewed first Federation Senior Vice President Gary Zadkovich about the teacher stopwork meetings in Dubbo and related issues, followed by Education Minister John Della Bosca.

DeKroo: Now, can you tell us, first of all, what's brought this one on, this particular action?

Zadkovich: Yeah, look, we're very frustrated by the lack of genuine will to negotiate on this issue. I spoke with you a couple of months ago, Leo, saying that we were trying to broker a settlement of this dispute. The Department has decided to go ahead and impose their changes onto schools. We've repeatedly pointed out the problems with the changes and we've said, look, let's negotiate. There are - there is scope to compromise, there is scope to negotiate. But they've gone ahead and imposed the changes.
Now, the change that's the issue of the day is the fact that the - they are now denying a teacher representative on a panel. They're denying teachers to have a say in selecting the new college principal for the three Dubbo campuses.
The changes are actually saying, parents are welcome to participate on selection panels, members of the local Aboriginal education group are welcome to be on the panel. The only people in a school community being denied a say in the selection of the new principal are the teachers who will be working with that colleague.
Now, that's an appalling indictment of these changes. There's no professional respect and trust in that action.

DeKroo: So are you saying that on a deliberate basis, it's actually documented to say there will be no teachers have a say at all, whereas you used to? No teachers have a say at all in the selection of a principal for a particular school.

Zadkovich: Yes, for 15 years, Leo, we've had negotiated staffing agreements where the Department and the Teachers Federation sat down at the table. We worked through procedures that we could agree on, and have been working effectively for 15 years. And the panel composition was like this. If there was a principal vacancy, the School Education Director for that area would convene a panel. You would have a Teachers Federation Representative, or teacher elected to be on that panel. You would have a parent representative and another community representative if necessary.
So we were included. We are part of the process. It worked effectively, it worked efficiently and they've unilaterally changed that. They've cut teachers out of the process from the commencement of this term.
And now we see this totally unnecessary action today where teachers are standing up for their professional dignity, for their right to have a say in the process. It's being denied them now and we're hoping that this - the Minister for Education can fix this because teachers can't be tossed aside like that.

DeKroo: I find it absolutely astounding. I just cannot [laughs] understand that this could be happening. I...

Zadkovich: I urge you to contact the local Regional Director. I urge you to contact the Minister's office, because they will be able to confirm that these changes cut teachers out of the selection process for principal positions. When we've got a record of 15 years of collegial cooperative endeavour in selecting principals.

DeKroo: Okay. Gary, thank you for talking to us.

Zadkovich: Thanks Leo.

DeKroo: Gary Zadkovich, who is the Senior Vice President of the Teachers Federation. And, I mean, you've got to assume that all that is true, that we've just heard, and I just - I'm quite astounded why you would not... why would you deliberately not have a teacher on representing the staff of that - the principal that's going to be involved with. I just don't see the sense in it. I mean, is it deliberate provocation?
Now John Della Bosca, if you want to give us a ring, that's fine, or anyone locally, if you're game to. You'd be hanging your head in shame wouldn't you, local people. You'd agree - I mean, you've come up through the ranks. Hey, you'd agree, surely, that this is stupid and dumb.
That afternoon, Minister Della Bosca took up the offer.

DeKroo: Well, I think, if we just zero in on that because the other stuff we've spoken about before. But this is now to do with actually elected or selecting a principal going to a school. Now, if you're going to have Aboriginal people, you're going to have parents, why would you not - and this is what they're saying - it's all right for you to say we're open to discussion [about it].
Someone is telling them - whether it's a porkie or not - that there will be no teachers represented on that selection committee. Now, why would they be going off half-cocked, shutting down schools and having their meetings, if you're now telling me that we're still in discussions over this?

Della Bosca: Well, Leo, I think both things are true. The - to put it in its simplest level, I was told about one of these disputes 48 hours ago. I had not been formally told by the Federation this was one of the issues they were still very concerned about. All I'm saying is that, yes, it is the policy that a teacher not be on the panel to select a principal.
DeKroo: But why? Excuse me, but why is that? I mean, for 15 years it's been quite successful though, hasn't it?

Della Bosca: Well, I would concede that point so, in a sense, I'm prepared to - what I've suggested is that is something that's got to be discussed with the Department and the Federation. I've got a fairly strong view. I've already privately made my view clear to the Director-General and to the Teachers Federation Executive members that have asked me about this. I think the matter will be resolved next week but, you know, I can't say a lot more because there are - there are discussions going, if not right at this moment, there are discussions over the last couple and the next few weeks - few days, hopefully.

DeKroo: Yes, but, John, the Director-General of your Department comes - I don't know. Is this a personality clash? Are they niggling one another? Are they daring one another? You're the Minister. Can't you say, like Solomon, say right, listen, wake up to yourselves, this is a positive thing to do, of course you've got to have a teacher there and now shut up and get on with the work? Why can't you do that?

Della Bosca: Well, Leo, I suppose what I'm saying to you is that I've asked the Director-General to look at a bunch of issues, including that issue and I want this dispute resolved as do the parents and the teachers and, I might say, the Director-General, right across the board. So we want this issue resolved, we want a satisfactory new system of transfers put in place. I think there's a few tried and true principles. I think that I'm very firm about the change or at least the basis of the change we've made in relation to giving principals an additional option and for that very reason I think that we need to be prepared to give comfort all round to teachers around a whole variety of other issues. I've always said that in this dispute. I've had my discussions with the Federation and the - and the Director-General on this particular aspect of the argument and, as I said, I expect this to be part of discussions next week.

DeKroo: Okay, so you personally, you do not have a problem if a teacher sat in on the selection process?

Della Bosca: I don't believe there's any difficulty with that at all.

Leo DeKroo: Right.

This is a condensed version of the transcripts.

Full transcripts

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Last Modified: 26 Jun 2008